misc
Being virtual friends in virtually different worlds, virtually
One of the great things about the blogging world is that people with similar interests and situations can gather around and make virtual friends with whom they can share some common ground. It’s amazing to me, that someone across the continent whom I have never met can feel for me when I am down and congratulate me when I am up. Just by a little comment on my blog.
It’s a wonderful thing.
There is a down side to this wonderful thing, however. Not actually knowing someone, makes it pretty easy to say to them things you might NEVER say to their face. I think most of us are pretty non-confrontational in real life, but if people are anything like me, they can get all hot under the collar privately and then make nice when it comes to actual, personal interaction. Email and blogging make it possible to break down our inhibitions to say whatever comes to our mind, without thought of how it might affect someone else. We can freely share our agitated/frustrated opinions in as open a way as possible without ever feeling the slightest remorse.
So here is what I really want to talk about–how can we all be friends in this virtual world, when though we share the common ground of motherhood, we have entirely different lives, values and opinions?
For example, how can I, Stephanie, a married, conservative 27 year old mother of three, be friends with a 45 year old single mother of 1 who is very liberal?
It’s very easy to be friends in the blogosphere when we are all saying things we agree with, so I think no suggestions are needed on that! But here are some of my suggestions on how we can all be friends in spite of differing opinions:
1. Be Aware. Sometimes a mommy blogger is going to -gasp- say something you don’t agree with. It may even be offensive to you. We are all different and we have various political/religious/personal views so this is to be expected. It’s not a bad thing, it just is what it is. Not everything that you post is going to go over smoothly with everyone else, and you will certainly come across posts you don’t agree with. Being aware of this may sound kind of simple and obvious, but it is certainly the first step in knowing how you are going to deal with controversy in the blog world.
2. Don’t take it personally. It can be hard when someone says something so in disagreement with your beliefs that it cuts you to the core. You will feel a lot better if you don’t take it as a personal affront. For example, if I say, “I don’t believe in drinking Coca Cola after 7 pm” or even if I add to that “I don’t think anyone else should either” you should not interpret that as saying I don’t like you if you are a 9:00 pm Coca-Cola drinker. I am entitled to my belief as you are to yours, and it doesn’t mean I think any less of you if you drink your Coke at 7:15. Being offended is counterproductive– especially when none was intended.
3. Play nice. Discussion is good, but listen to Thumper. And as long as we are not taking it personally, we shouldn’t make personal attacks either. I am not saying you can’t say, “I don’t agree with you,” or, “I don’t think that is correct.” It just means you can’t say, “You’re an idiot,” or “I am laughing at you for your tiny, uneducated opinion.” It’s just like with your kids, you tell them you didn’t like the behavior rather than saying you don’t like them for doing it. And if you are going to say something that might not be super nice, try and pad the blow with a compliment on something else that they said. And of course here on SMB, you are going to have to follow the official comments policy.
4. Pause and review before you submit. Recognize that if you are going to say something that you think might be innocent, realize that the internet leaves a lot of interpretation for tone. In other words, you could be misunderstood and should be prepared for that. If you are unsure, give it a minute before you click that button. Or get a second opinion. (I can’t tell you how many times the hubs has told me my comment was offensive AFTER the fact…)
5. Focus on the strengths of our common ground. We are women and mothers here trying to raise our children right and give them the best experiences possible. We should lift and love each other up by realizing we have much more in common than we think.
6. Assume the friendship. Just assume that if you met someone from a blog in real life, that you would like them and be nice to them. Don’t say anything in a comments section (or even in your blog post!) that you wouldn’t say to the actual person if you were face to face with them. SMB hosts a lot of events, and it is likely that we could meet. I don’t want there to be awkwardness. We may not end up being friends, nor am I saying I think we have to be. We might like two ships, meet once and never again, or we could be kindred spirits. (Some of my best friends are people I didn’t initally like.) So as a courtesy just assume we’re good friends (pretend even) and behave as such.
So there they are just a few suggestions. But I want to know what YOU think. (This post of course, is my opinion only, does not necessarily reflect the beliefs of SMB). What are your suggestions for being friends? Is it even possible to make nice with people who can all be so different? Tell me your thoughts.
Stephanie is a work at home momma trying to make the world more beautiful while also trying to keep her sanity with three energetic children under the age of six.
You can read more about her fabulously crazy life over at The Mommiverse
The part about taking things personally - if someone said, “I don’t believe in x” fine, that person doesn’t believe in x. But when they say, “I don’t think anyone else should believe in x”, I have a problem with that. It doesn’t matter if x is something that I personally do or not, and it’s not a question of feeling liked. The person that is should-ing is, whether consciously or not, trying to control or manipulate others.
As for assuming the friendship, I usually don’t walk up to perfect strangers and talk religion, politics, or other dicey topic. However if someone makes a series of erroneous statements (not, I believe x but more like - x is the only true belief or everyone *should* believe x) then there is going to be some communication. It doesn’t matter if there’s a screen between us or not. It only matters that I’m in the mood for holding my position, but just because I comment doesn’t mean it was done angrily. Either way I’m not going to pretend to be friends with someone I don’t know nor act like I’m friends with someone I don’t like. The latter is hypocritical and I do my best to avoid that.
Erica, I am assuming then, that since you didn’t give any suggestions that you’d rather not make friends then? I don’t mean that offensively, but I get the feeling that you would either just only be friends with people who believe similarly than you, or that you would rather be right, than be friendly.
I mean, correct me if I am wrong. And do you have any suggestions for being friends with someone who is totally different in belief set, life stage etc?
“And do you have any suggestions for being friends with someone who is totally different in belief set, life stage etc?”
I do: Accept their differences, don’t try to change them.
For example, I would start by not taking it upon myself to tell everybody else what they should think/believe/do. I think Erica makes a good point. It’s fine to have different beliefs and to tell people how YOU believe. It’s welcome and encouraged, even. But when you suggest to others that THEY should believe the same as you, you’re invalidating the other person’s own beliefs. It comes across as overbearing and critical to those who don’t feel the same way, and it is very difficult to be friends with someone who judges and controls that way.
I think that to peacefully co-exist with our different beliefs, we need to watch how we say things and make sure we don’t (unintentionally?) judge others’ belief sets by saying they should believe the same as us. State that you don’t believe in drinking Coke after 7pm, but accept that others may partake at 9:30pm. If it doesn’t affect YOU, then why should you need to tell them they shouldn’t do it? It’s their life.
i think it always helps to remember that you can’t tell what the tone is — and to give the writer the benefit of the doubt. chances that they’re trying to be mean and/or offend you? pretty small. chances that they’re trying to be reasonable and get their point across in a decent way? pretty high. it always helps me to see it from their point of view; the writer is likely doing the best they can with what they’ve got. and i KNOW i’ve written things that came across badly because i was tired or didn’t proofread… not to even mention times where i might have been too passionate about the subject at hand.
I think it would have to depend on the reason for a blog, or an email member list, or a bulletin board/forum. I am still smarting after several years of losing some good friends-at least I assumed they were, over their refusal to understand my point of view. I “told it like it was” and they banned me from a long-standing “friends” list.
They explicitly thought I should not have spoken my mind and just “got along” because we were friends. But…I wasn’t going to stay silent when some thought it was OK for a racist grandmother to forbid her granddaughter from going to the prom with a black man. I continued to speak out when one of them thought that learning about civil rights “ruined the innocence of our kindergarteners” and that it was “ancient history”.
Why did I bother? Because these were people I CARED about and wanted to try and get them to understand that my having a black/white biracial daughter and a black husband made it all my fight, that saying civil rights was ancient history hurt ME.
I could not have stayed quiet in the interest of friendship. Sometimes values are too important to stay silent, and yes, I suppose it DID get personal. And looking at my daughter navigate life, I know I did the right thing.
For the record, I have since begun a blog of my own about living in a biracial family. I sometimes get comments that are less than friendly. I expect that, since I know from personal experience that not everyone thinks black and white together is ok.
You asked Erica above whether she would only be friends with people like her in belief…for me, it is very hard, VERY hard, to be ok with people who either have racist views or let those who have them get away with them. As I do with some family members, I would try to get them to see my point of view and change, but if not, then I’d certainly limit contact, be it online or real life.
And to be REALLY controversial, I’ll go so far as to say there are people whose views make it difficult, evne impossible to be friendly with.
I think it would have to depend on the reason for a blog, or an email member list, or a bulletin board/forum. I am still smarting after several years of losing some good friends-at least I assumed they were, over their refusal to understand my point of view. I “told it like it was” and they banned me from a long-standing “friends” list.
They explicitly thought I should not have spoken my mind and just “got along” because we were friends. But…I wasn’t going to stay silent when some thought it was OK for a racist grandmother to forbid her granddaughter from going to the prom with a black man. I continued to speak out when one of them thought that learning about civil rights “ruined the innocence of our kindergarteners” and that it was “ancient history”.
Why did I bother? Because these were people I CARED about and wanted to try and get them to understand that my having a black/white biracial daughter and a black husband made it all my fight, that saying civil rights was ancient history hurt ME.
I could not have stayed quiet in the interest of friendship. Sometimes values are too important to stay silent, and yes, I suppose it DID get personal. And looking at my daughter navigate life, I know I did the right thing.
For the record, I have since begun a blog of my own about living in a biracial family. I sometimes get comments that are less than friendly. I expect that, since I know from personal experience that not everyone thinks black and white together is ok.
You asked Erica above whether she would only be friends with people like her in belief…for me, it is very hard, VERY hard, to be ok with people who either have racist views or let those who have them get away with them. As I do with some family members, I would try to get them to see my point of view and change, but if not, then I’d certainly limit contact, be it online or real life.
And to be REALLY controversial, I’ll go so far as to say there are people whose views make it difficult, even impossible to be friendly with. And that OK too. I don’t ONLY want friends exactly like me, but I want to surround myself with those who won’t bring me down, so to speak. There are certain views that are cornerstones of my life, and when I come across someone who thinks those views are wrong or even dangerous, I don’t feel very friendly.
Sorry! I thought I stopped that first post and added more on!
Ooh, this is really good conversation. I am totally with you smarmoofus on the whole accept them and don’t try to change them. I have some pretty conservative views, but I certainly accept other people’s beliefs and make no effort to sway them one or the other. I just love them anyway.
Agi– I am so sorry you have had to deal with that in your life, and your comment has brought up another question to my mind. I think it is good/fine/okay/great to be friends with someone who has different beliefs. But clearly, as in Agi’s case there are some belief sets that she will not allow (for good reason) in those she chooses to associate with. So my question is, where is a good line? How do you decide where that line is?
Ooh and I am just curious– so if I say the words, “I think people in general need to not drink Coca Cola after 7 pm.” How does that come across to you? Assume that I make the statement and leave it at that. As a 9:30 Coke drinker, does that make you feel judged or pressured? I’m curious.
I save my soapboxing for things that really matter to me. I don’t care whether someone thinks I should or shouldn’t drink Coke or Diet Coke or when. I don’t care if they think my kid’s bedtime is too early, or that I let my older kid stay out too late. Those are…”operational” things about a person and a family, and unless someone actually gets in my real life face about any of it, I don’t care how someone feels. For the record, that has NEVER happened.
But-if someone tells me that my belief is immoral, or that my politics are stupid, or the way I was raising my kids was helping bring society to ruin, or my marriage was against nature, well, then we’d have a problem.
To me, there’s a huge difference in having opinions and telling people anyone with a different one is so wrong that people or society will suffer. Those are fighting words.
And again, it’s the topic that’s important. If someone REALLY thought that my drinking Diet Coke after 7 was going to bring about ruin, I’d just laugh. But bring my husband and his color into it, watch out.
Stephanie, as Agi suggested, depending on how important/serious the issue is, I might be offended by a statement framed that way or I might not. Late-night Coke drinking, probably not… even though I happen to be a late-night Coke drinker. It’s such a trivial matter, I hardly care what anybody thinks of it.
With more serious matters, on the off chance that the view might offend someone, instead of saying “I don’t think anybody should X,” perhaps we should say “I don’t do X because it may lead to Y,” or “I don’t do X because it conflicts with my religion/belief set.” That way we can express our view and provide a reasonable justification for it without condemning other peoples’ actions. And perhaps we might educate someone who wasn’t aware of a possible consequence of a given action, or provide an opportunity for healthy debate of an issue citing well-researched authority.
Agi, I’m sorry you experienced such horrible treatment from people you thought to be friends. But I’m glad you made the decision to stand up for your family and your convictions. And, slightly off topic, I think it’s ridiculous that in the same debate where they are telling you to just “get along” with people who accept racism, they’re suggesting that the civil rights issue is “ancient history.” Obviously it’s not, or there wouldn’t have been a discussion.
Stephanie - why would you assume that? I don’t have any suggestions for being friends over the internet so I skipped that. Is it possible to “make nice” with people that have different opinions? - To me, making nice sounds like the person isn’t liked and their differences are just being tolerated for the sake of niceness. But to answer the question, yes, I think it’s possible to tolerate and even accept different opinions. As I tried to say in the above comment, my problem is when people push their beliefs on others.
“I get the feeling that you would either just only be friends with people who believe similarly than you, or that you would rather be right, than be friendly” Most people naturally gravitate to others because of their similarities. That’s usually what brings them together in the first place. That doesn’t mean that if a friend has a different opinion about something it’s time to cut ties and run, especially if it’s something as mundane as whether or not movie xyz is good or not.
“I think people in general need to not drink Coca Cola after 7 pm.” That’s just a wordy way of saying, “I don’t think people should drink Coke after 7”. It’s not judging or adding pressure, it’s still trying to control the behavior of others. But like Agi said – if someone told me I shouldn’t drink Coke after seven I would just laugh at them. Someone telling me how I should or shouldn’t raise my kid for example ticks me off-fa-fah.
smarmoofus – Thank you, and very well put. Of course.
emily – very true. And we often add tone to the things we read where it might not exist again, especially on topics we’re passionate about.
Agi – I’m sorry your friends expected you to just go along with something that goes against, well, your daughter and husband. And Ack! (this part is off topic, sorry) Learning about civil rights ruined the innocence? I can’t imagine how learning history would ever be a bad thing - regardless of age. I think repressing knowledge does a great disservice to the kids. I mean we’re ultimately teaching and training them to be independent people and for that to happen they need info.
How about rum and Coke?
Sorry. I know, I am ten-years-old.
I have enjoyed reading the discussion. I don’t have anything new to add, other than supporting the view that what is important to one may not be important to another (as sad as that is) and that is why if your intent is to tread lightly and not offend, than you should do just that.
There is a big difference in making friends and having a lively debate and I don’t see why the 2 have to go hand in hand. I do believe people should be respectful and word their responses carefully . . . in either arena. Also - it is OKAY to disagree, just do it without losing your dignity!
And - never comment when you have pms - that is my general rule! And I say that with a smile on my face ladies.
Carry on . . .
I am pleased with the way the discussion has been going.
Carrie– I totally agree. It’s okay to disagree, but respect is key.
And from what I gather, we should speak as to not offend, but there are some lines you will cross that are going to offend– no matter what, and it varies between individuals. Am I getting this right?
Of course, and you can’t please everyone - that goes without saying.
The key is to do so in the least offensive way.
Generally, if I feel strongly about something, I tell myself to A) relax about it and B) come back to it later, when I may have a clearer mind on the subject and I’m not just letting my feelings take control. Sometimes I find that I just don’t care as much as I thought I did - and that’s fine too. Imagine if I’d posted my initial reaction? Yikes!
It doesn’t always work, but I find that reacting strongly can either work for or against you and it is definitely something everyone should be aware that they are doing when they are doing it.